Cost Per News Special: Affiliate Networks vs CPA Networks
After the conversation over the Molander / Ms. X podcast, I decided it would be a good idea to solicit ideas from you on a main question that was raised from the podcast and the ensuing debate in the comments.
“Are CPA Networks a threat to affiliate networks? Why or Why not?“
If you’d like more material to ponder, here’s an interesting thread at ABestWeb on the subject which I’ll be blogging on later today.
Here are the answers I received from around the affiliate and online marketing industry (in no particular order)…
Deanna Key from Rextopia:
With such similar business models, clientele and customer base, it would seem that this would be a rhetorical question. They are the same. Both act as intermediaries between an entity that desires a customer who is willing to commit a certain action and an entity that can deliver that desired customer.
No matter the lingo, lead or sale, advertiser or merchant, affiliate or publisher, the same principles hold true in order to be a successful network; choose your partners wisely, be fair and just to your partners and work as a team for the greatest collective good. The threat is found in the companies that do not follow these principles and cause a broad stroke to be used when diminishing the worth or validity of either kind of network.
Missy Ward from CPA Empire and Affiliate Summit…
As much as I would prefer to concur with Ms. X’s opinions given my day job ;-), I vehemently disagree that CPA Networks are a replacement for Affiliate Networks.
Saying to an Advertiser that a CPA Network can be a substitute for an Affiliate Network is like saying to a person waiting for a heart transplant that you’re going to give him a lung. While both organs have extremely important functions, one can not stand in for the other.While I am of the same opinion as Ms. X that CPA Networks can generate substantial volume for an advertiser if the conditions are appropriate, not every advertiser will benefit from working with a CPA Network.
Multi-sku retailers for example, would be hard-pressed to find success in a CPA Network. While a large portion of CPA Networks possess the technology to handle rev-share programs and even provide datafeeds, page creators, etc., it is near impossible to find a CPA Network that is doing it. And, it’s not because they don’t know how. I believe it’s simply a matter of realizing that they can’t be everything to everyone and focusing on what they do best, is what makes them successful in their own right.
Additionally, while Advertisers do receive the benefit of not having to manage Affiliates by using a CPA Network, there are inherent flaws that come along with that (transparency issues, brand concerns, etc.) That being said, no advertiser should delude themselves into thinking that whether they are working with a CPA Network or Affiliate Network, that they should take their eye off their baby.
Lastly and probably the least known to advertisers (yet, probably the most important) is that there are Super Affiliates that will NEVER work with CPA Networks. These are the folks that should not be overlooked because while they may not deliver a thousand sales in one day, they will always be consistent.
So while I am a believer that CPA Networks have become a force to be reckoned with (for lack of a better term), they should not be looked at as a substitute for Affiliate Networks for every advertiser. Rather, they should be viewed as a viable supplemental channel for the appropriate type of advertiser who wants to diversify their marketing efforts.
Jeff Doak from My Affiliate Program and Kowabunga…
CPA Networks are not a threat to affiliate networks simply because they serve different kinds of advertisers and, in most cases, different types of affiliates.
Working for a company that has both an affiliate network and a CPA network under the same umbrella, I see the differences between the two client bases quite clearly, and there is very little crossover.
In fact, when one of our company’s sales associates is contacted by a potential advertiser, we have trained them to understand the difference between a Primary Ads prospect and a Kowabunga prospect, and here are the differences:
1. Are they a retailer who sells a product or products (Kowabunga) or are they a company looking to gather leads from a landing page (Primary Ads)?
2. Does the prospect want continuing, long-term relationships with the sites that drive the traffic (Kowabunga) or are they only interested in traffic only, regardless of the source, and they may actually have a limit on the amount of leads they will pay for (Primary Ads)?
This differentiation doesn’t exist simply because we need to share prospects, it exists solely based on the types of clients that are acceptable to each division. If any threat exists at all to affiliate networks it is that they may lose their current lead gen advertisers (if they haven’t already). But since most affiliate networks tout clients who are big brands and big retailers, this is of little concern.
Wayne Porter (of his own fame and with Facetime)…
Traditional affiliate networks rely on long-term programs aimed at retailers. CPA networks tend to work verticals, and will do so more in the future, becoming adept at their particular niche.
As a result, they do not threaten affiliate networks, and in certain circumstances complement them.
However, transparency has been issue with CPA networks that must be overcome. In 2007 we should expect to see the most advanced CPA networks, and or those who have dominated high margin niches become prime acquisition targets.
Shawn Collins from Affiliate Summit and AffiliateTip…
I think the talk of the sky is falling is more symptomatic of people trying to either sell something to fix the “problem” or simply to garner attention.
In reality, I don’t see CPA networks as a threat to traditional affiliate networks.
No more than AdBrite, AdSense, BlogAds, Chitika, and any number of other opportunities for people to make money online.
Actually, I think CPA networks should be embraced by affiliate networks as learning opportunities.
If some affiliates prefer certain aspects of CPA networks, these things can be part of the evolution of affiliate networks.
Not to mention the fact that different types of affiliates promote per lead offers vs. per sale offers.
Since the vast majority of affiliate programs are based on per sale offers paying out a percent of the sale, the affiliates running CPA network deals could well be considered incremental to the existing crop of affiliate network affiliates.
Therefore, they could be potential affiliates of the affiliate networks down the road.
David Lewis from 77Blue (with the most original contribution)…
The answer is no, they are not a threat in any way.
Linda Woods from Partnercentric…
No, they are not. Here’s why – they are intensely focused on “offers”, primarily leads, and only in pushing high volume, easy to understand, consumer oriented offers. Affiliate networks are based on the relationship between retailers that are focused largely on product sales and the commissioned sales people (affiliates) that are interested in helping promote their brand and/or products for a performance fee.They care about the quality of the brand, the demand for the products by consumers, and to some degree things like customer satisfaction and site quality. This is a “people-driven” marketplace, not an “offer-driven” market place. Plus, there’s just too darn many CPA networks, they will start cannibalizing each other soon, and to some degree already have.
The responses here do run the gamut. My own insights into these comments will be coming later today, but first I want to get your thoughts and ideas on what has been presented here from around the industry.
So what do you think? Add your voice to the conversation in the comments. You can also subscribe to them without commenting if you would like to just follow along.
Deanna:
If I wasn’t married to my wife, Diana, (ironically pronounced Deeanna) I’d propose to you right now. Or perhaps in Second Life. Congratulations on being one of the few people who answered the question Sam asked.
No offense to everyone else (except for David Lewis!) but I don’t think Sam asked about traditional affiliate networks needing to worry about being replaced by CPA networks. He asked if they compete, why or why not.
Oh, and Sam didn’t ask if anyone was trying to drum up consulting projects but I’m impressed at the ability of my detractors to stick with this highly embarrassing situation — pointing out that I earn a living and taking a swipe at CostPerNews in the same breath (for sponsoring my plea for money and positioning it as “news”). As we all know, conferences and books are all done for the love of the industry, not for the money.
Jeff:
While I enjoyed your reasoning and find it insightful I don’t think you supported your thesis: they don’t because they serve two different types of customers.
If any threat exists at all to affiliate networks it is that they may lose their current lead gen advertisers (if they haven’t already). But since most affiliate networks tout clients who are big brands and big retailers, this is of little concern.
I ask that you consider that the above statement supports a “yes” answer to Sam’s question and that your rationalization ignores the fact that retailers are less profitable than CPA advertisers.
Suggesting that most affiliate networks tout brands is not relevant. I assume you meant that they do business with large brands as a practice — they prefer it. This is only partially true. Linkshare, CJ and even Performics have more small brand clients than large brands but this, also, is irrelevant to the point you’re making — which agrees with Sam’s question and undermines your argument. Thus, I suggest you’re one of “us” (Deanna, should we let him into the club?). Watch your back at the Affiliate Summit, Jeff 😉
By using the logic you presented, Commission Junction would prefer to take JC Penny away from Linkshare rather than Chase. Why? It’s a big retail brand and that’s what they court. CJ doesn’t really cater to lead generation advertisers and would prefer a retailer. This ignores the fact that Chase, click for click, is a more lucrative customer for the network — any network.
I suggest to you that the nature of clients which Kowabunga and your sister company target (small businesses) clouds what you’re able to see happening in the realm of VCLK/CJ et al. Specifically, you may be able to separate your inbound client leads based on “product or service” but this is due to the phenomenon occurring within the small biz realm: one where brand loyalty does not drive volume.
Please consider: most of (not all) your clients don’t compete on a level where brand drives sales or lead volume. As an example, Money Cares (your debt consolidation client) ended up inside Kolimbo (your affiliate network). Based on your description of the advertiser qualification process I’m not sure how that happened but it did and what I’m suggesting is that your sister CPA network isn’t going to much care about losing out. Why? They simply cannot compete with you when catering to the same level of client — those that don’t have brand driving the volume. Does this make sense? Your sister company will simply go find another Money Cares-like advertiser. It won’t be too difficult for them to do. This isn’t slamming your smaller biz, smaller brand clients… it’s just stating the way it is. Right?
> Oh, and Sam didn’t ask if anyone was trying to drum up consulting projects but I’m impressed at the ability of my detractors to stick with this highly embarrassing situation
Jeff –
Correct, he asked “Are CPA Networks a threat to affiliate networks? Why or Why not?”
And that’s exactly what I answered.
Forgive me for jumping to conclusions about your motives, but I was basing my Chicken Little comment on your recent methods of promoting your products and services.
Recall http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=68643
Hey, Shawn…
You’re not forgiven. Good that you can own up to your actions.
Indeed, talking about products and conducting research that measures market acceptance is not only completely conniving, devious and unheard of in your mind but it is, also, a waste of time in practice thanks largely to an environment that answers like yours help create.
If you wanted to actually step up to the plate and take a swing at Sam’s question you’d take my answer or Deanna’s and offer critical thought against our points. Hey batta-batta-swing? Didn’t think so. It’s easier to reply with some pat “each can can learn from each other” and walk away.
“Indeed, talking about products and conducting research that measures market acceptance is not only completely conniving, devious and unheard of in your mind but it is, also, a waste of time in practice”
Whatever – you just wanted to conversate with your friends at ABW about the pressing issue of the day, right?
My grandpop told me about guys like you when he used to take me to the track.
You’re a two bit tout.
By the way, was that some kind of research you were doing with that site you put on the same server with affiliate2dot0.com?
Wow, got curious, did a reverse IP lookup at domaintools.com on affiliate2dot0.com. Found something pretty lame and petty.
Dude, that’s over the line.
Are CPA Networks are a Threat to Affiliate Networks?…
There is a tinder box of controversy over at Sam Harrelson’s Cost Per News. The debate is around whether CPA Networks are a threat to affiliate networks….
> I haven’t found anything yet but I’m curious given that Shawn and Jim find it relevant.
I’m not sure what you are talking about, but this discussion is not a referendum on you.
Hi, Shawn.
Actually, I accused you of smearing me and ad hominem attacks. You did the same thing that you always do. You didn’t address the issue and tried to make it appear as if I’m drawing attention to myself.
I’m drawing attention to YOU and your pointless, baseless attacks — not to mention your refusal, to my delight, to participate in Sam’s invitation to think critically about the industry that you have associated so closely with your good name.
I hope you might approach the batters box and take an intellectual swing for a change and dismantle my logic… rather than embarrass yourself like this. Pick your post but let’s start with this one for Sam’s sake.
Jeff –
Sam asked a question and I answered it. To be quite honest, I’m not concerned if you didn’t like my answer.
> take an intellectual swing for a change
Oh, that’s the sort of thing that brings this conversation to the next level – another swipe.
Quit complaining about personal attacks and then making them yourself.
Keep it on topic.
Jeff, what’s important to me, personally, is fairness and integrity, and being upfront and honorable.
I do apologize to Sam for bringing what I found to his blog. It just shocked me. There’s poking fun, then there’s over the line mean. Again, sorry Sam.
And no, I’m not going to call it out here. People can do their own investigation if they wish. Personally, I’m dissapointed, but make your own decision.
“I was hoping that CostPerNews.com would end up being a place where people came to discuss the important issues Sam decides to publish viewpoints on.”
That is the goal of this site, Jeff. Realize, however, that is not the result of all of your comments or the comments of many others.
I view CPN as a symposium of sorts to catalogue important issues and industry responses to them, in hopes that we may build upon a body of knowledge going into the future and provide for a better understanding of what we are doing, both from inside the industry and from outside the industry.
I refuse to make this a gated community and require a subscription to comment or read. These discussions are potentially too valuable for the industry as a whole to build up those fences, although those platforms do have their validity and I do participate in them. In my reluctance to create these barriers, people are transferred a very powerful responsibility to keep themselves in check. Sometimes people adhere to that responsibility and sometimes they do not.
What I hope CPN becomes is a platform for conversation where readers take that responsibility with the utmost respect and allow for intelligent conversation about industry issues to flourish. I’ve seen glimpses of that over the past two weeks that this site has been operational, and I hope to see that flourish in the near future.
Ultimately, what is happening is that readers who do have insights and valuable thoughts into these (and future) topics are being discouraged from participating because of this back and forth exchange.
If you are going to leave a comment, and I encourage you to do so, please keep it to the realm of the prescribed issue. That does not mean that you cannot challenge someone’s viewpoint or bias, but please do so in a professional manner. There are ways to intelligently disagree with someone by making a clear and coherent retort yourself, which does not include petty name calling. See any academic or professional peer edited journal if you are unsure of how to do such things.
In my academic field, we’ve been politely yet sharply disagreeing with each other for over 500 years, yet the format of our disagreements lends to a rich conversation rather than what has been oozing up from the primordial baser instincts of human nature here.
Moving forward, in the rare case that someone makes a mean-spirited or off topic personal attack after I post this, they will not be able to participate further in this conversation or others in the future, without warning and no matter who they are.
This is not meant to protect anyone, including myself. This is meant to protect the sanctity of conversation and what is possible, and has been evidenced in some of the comments, on the site.
I do not see these off topic back-and-forths being a problem now that I have established the ground rule.
Please realize that people outside the world of affiliate and our niche of online marketing are reading and would like to participate, but they are wise to stay out of this mess because all it does is harm your brand, and the brand of affiliate marketing.
So let’s raise the bar, shall we? Thanks for reading, and keep participating-
Sam
[…] Aptly, yet subtly brought to light in the midst of yet another gem of a comment-flame-fest that Jeff Molander finds himself in the middle of, is a small project that allegedly Jeff has had in stealth mode for a few months now. Getting ready for a big launch maybe? […]
Thank you, Scott.
I’m simply and completely amazed yet disgusted.
What you’ve pointed out is the antithesis to what I want this site to represent, so I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.
Sam
Gee, if I wouldn’t know better, I would believe to be in the middle of a schoolyard brawl between young teens and not grown adults. Adults that consider themselves higher educated and smarter than the average Joe and leaders in an industry. If such attitudes would have been found in the governments of the world powers during the cold war, nobody would be here to talk about it.
Having different opinions is normal and good, because that sparks discussions and debates with everybody getting something out of it at the end and a compromise if the involved parties have at least a little bit interest to come to a consensus.
Regarding to the original discussion:
Are CPA Networks are a Threat to Affiliate Networks?
I don’t think so. Are they taking a bite out Affiliate Networks business? They certainly do, but so did AdSense or YPN etc. This is not the end of Affiliate Networks at all, because they lost and lose only who was a “poor” or “bad” Advertiser or Publisher in the first place and an ill fit for them.
They only got them because there was nothing better out there, something that is designed to fit their needs. They leave the Affiliate Network when something comes along that does work for them.
Affiliate Networks benefit from it, if they want to or not. They can focus more on what they are good at, their core competency, being a platform to build long term partnerships that are beneficial for everybody involved.
Some Advertisers and Publishers can leverage the benefits of both types of Networks as some publishers can leverage the benefits of Affiliate Marketing and AdSense.
That’s my opinion to this..
Note:
Regarding the k…ed.com site. Jeff, if it is yours, then I have two recommendations for you. 1) Take it down a.s.a.p. 2) Apologize for it in public (no excuses!) to prevent the loss of face. Everybody makes mistakes and people can forgive mistakes, but only if they are admitted.
If it is not your site, then I would work hard to find out who did it. The evidence is pretty strong though which makes it tough to believe that it was done by somebody who wants to harm you AND the person referred to by that profanity site.
The absolute worst part of all of this mud slinging is that we have yet to hear our moderators answer to his own question.
Sam – Do you believe CPA Networks are a threat to affiliate networks? Why or why not?
Molander — I’ll admit that I didn’t make my point very well, but it stands regardless.
Let me make this clear one more time since it’s not getting through apparently: for the most part, CPA networks and traditional affiliate networks support completely different client bases. The only crossover is in the area of specific kinds of lead gen that are a fairly insignificant part of any affiliate network’s revenue, and are certainly not their core business. Since the question we are asking here is whether or not CPA Networks are a “threat” to traditional affiliate networks, then the answer is clearly no. No, no, no, no, no. No. Even if they were a threat a couple years ago (they weren’t), they no longer are because the mergers leave most affiliate networks with a CPA Network partner. So even if CJ was spending more than 2 seconds worrying about CPA Networks eating their lunch when it came to ringtone offers (they weren’t), now they have a sister company that can push those offers.
This entire argument has only become so confrontational because you refuse to admit when you’re clearly wrong. I’m sure it’s not hard to find affiliate managers who are tired of their job and would rather pull traffic from a CPA Network, but until you can show me a CPA Network that is going to steal away any significant revshare/retailer from any affiliate network (which will never happen), then this entire argument is ridiculous.
And I’m not “threatened” by your stance — my company makes money whether the client goes with KB or with Primary Ads, it makes no difference to me. I am not arguing for the sake of argument (a charge I could more easily level at you); I believe there are significant differences between the two business models that prevent CPA networks from ever being a “threat.” Just because CPA Networks scale and traditional networks do not does not mean they are suddenly going to take over. There are very good reasons that traditional affiliate marketing cannot scale easily, and those reasons make it a profitable channel nonetheless and its the reason CPA Networks don’t start accepting revshare/retailer offers.
Why am I even bothering to post on this topic if it’s not worthy of debate? Because you have a track record for doing this sort of thing and all it does is make you enemies, and I like you :). If you want to further the conversation, then present your interview with Ms X (someone who clearly sees things from one point of view only) followed by an interview with someone who can point out the fallacies in her argument.
“followed by an interview with someone who can point out the fallacies in her argument.”
Great point (in a series of well thought out points, I think), Jeff D.
I’ve been trying to get someone to do a counter podcast or developed post speaking to the points that Ms. X brought up from another point of view. If anyone would be interested in an undertaking, let me know. I’ll supply the line and help out however is necessary. This has been an interesting discussion to follow, but having an audio compliment would push us into new levels and allow for more jumping off points.
I’ll answer your question soon, Deanna. Thanks for pointing that out 🙂
Jeff (I never called you “Doak” in my life):
I never said, or implied, you didn’t make your point well nor did I question its stance so please don’t try and inject emotion or call this “confrontational.” I dissected your points and presented a counter. To suggest that I think I threaten you is insulting! What would possess you to suggest that you know what I think about you… and in such an emotionally charged way no less?
Fact: after I posted that I called Sam to ask him how I did in terms of how I came across — so as not to be too coarse or smug. Sam, at the time, said I did fine… not to worry. Feel free to confirm with Sam that I was overly sensitive — being Molander and all. I have worked hard for over a year now to not appear to be a jerk when debating, Jeff, and it’s reactions like yours that disappoint me — as they improperly color my comments and dilute their value.
I appreciate your last set of comments but they do not address anything I put forward. You repeated yourself and claimed that I didn’t listen to you. I did and I did my best to explain what I thought you were missing.
It’s ridiculous to be acting like this when we each have longstanding, deep respect for each other’s minds. I haven’t been asked to admit I’m wrong nor have I suggested that I’m not wrong. I have not become confrontational and when I have on CPN it has been due to anonymous posters getting my goat.
By suggesting that one side of the argument that Sam puts forward is ridiculous you argue that Sam’s having asked the question is ridiculous. By invalidating one of the two positions you take away debate. You have indirectly suggested that Sam’s question is one that doesn’t matter and undermined your having taken the time to reply to it. Clearly you don’t like hearing one of the sides from Ms. X and you don’t like hearing my side of a related question that Sam posed.
I don’t think any answer is clear no matter how many no’s you use. If you take that position let’s see some reasoning, eh? I took my position and gave reasoning complete with examples. You have repeatedly laid out your thesis.
I believe there are significant differences between the two business models that prevent CPA networks from ever being a “threat.” Just because CPA Networks scale and traditional networks do not does not mean they are suddenly going to take over. There are very good reasons that traditional affiliate marketing cannot scale easily, and those reasons make it a profitable channel nonetheless and its the reason CPA Networks don’t start accepting revshare/retailer offers.
Okay. You’ve said this twice. I’m not trying to provoke you but why not lay out some reasoning for me to consider (when have I refused to consider your words, Jeff?).
I simply must address your comment re: how I create enemies for myself. If laying out only one side creates enemies then I am absolutely guilty.
It is not my job to present both sides. That’s what the other side is for! I present my educated opinion. To suggest that I am only interested in debating for the sake of debate or listing to myself talk is pure insanity. When I closed Shawn’s last summit my final comments were addressing how face-to-face interaction brings out the best learnings and how much David Lewis was able to teach me within the first 20 minutes of meeting him. It’s not the first time I’ve learned on a blog or board and will not be the last.
Bottom line: I present my educated opinion and if others want to present the other they have their own blog or comments to do so. Or, yes, they can make a podcast.
For Deanna…
Are CPA networks a threat to affiliate networks?
No.
Should you use CPA networks in conjuntion with what you are doing at CJ or Linkshare or SAS?
Yes.
Why?
It’s not just because of the volume. There is more transparency in (good) CPA networks than Ms. X says. The presentation she gives of these entities from Molander’s prompts seems a little too idealistic for my experience in online marketing, the bulk of which has been spent in the deep trenches in CPA networks. There were a few more inconsistent leaps (pure performance, etc) made in the interview, but overall I think the point of raising CPA networks to a level of serious inquiry in your marketing spend is a good one.
Most CPA networks have moved beyond their “super affiliate” status into something else that we haven’t completely defined or located. So, spend some time in a few networks, talk to the people behind them and see what they can do for your program or service.
By the way, the argument that CPA networks can’t do rev share (which I keep hearing on and off the comments here) is wrong. Having helped build a network, manage a couple and worked as an affiliate manager in another, I can reassure you that there are ways to convert a rev share % into an effective CPA payout scalable to the performance of affiliates. Even DirecTrack can handle this. So, make sure you do your homework and see how these things work before relying on four year old arguments.
> There is more transparency in (good) CPA networks than Ms. X says.
Please elaborate.
> By the way, the argument that CPA networks can’t do rev share (which I keep hearing on and off the comments here) is wrong.
Not that they cannot do rev share, but that it’s not present in CPA networks in a significant way.
I think a pretty accurate snapshot of typical offers available in CPA networks is the list at http://www.cpatipline.com/allfilelist.php
I’ve been told by 3 seperate “CPA network”s that they can’t do RevShare % deals. I was not told in any of the three conversations whether this was a “technical” problem, or a “by management decision”… so I think at least a little of that sentiment is coming directly from the CPA networks and not necessarily bad assumptions.
The word “can’t” was specifically used 3 different times. I remember, as it struck me as an odd word to use each time.
Jeff M — Fair enough. I do stand by my assertion that you tend to look for argument more than you look for debate, though I’ll admit you have toned that down over the years — I seem to remember a certain someone once proudly claiming something like “affiliate managers are junior-level marketers” on an affiliate manager-only forum :).
I didn’t go into my reasoning behind the necessary non-scalability of traditional affiliate marketing because it’s a much longer discussion. My main point was that CPA Networks don’t threaten affiliate networks because their client bases almost never cross over, and when they do, it has little affect on the affiliate network’s bottom line. CPA networks scale the part of affiliate marketing that can be scaled — email and search marketers driving a ton of traffic to landing page lead forms.
The rest of affiliate marketing doesn’t scale because the model is much closer to the idea of an “extended sales force” than any other kind of online marketing — nothing else is even close. You essentially have a team of hundreds or thousands of online marketers who all have their own niches and their own ways of driving traffic, some of which invariably complement or conflict with the advertiser’s own efforts. All other methods of online marketing (except some emerging models involving consumer generated content) allow the advertiser to completely control message and method of delivery, while affiliate marketing works because you don’t control it. The LMI initiative was a perfect example of this disconnect — when CJ tried to scale by letting the network or the advertiser control the ad content, affiliates revolted because it eliminated the one thing that makes them different from any other publisher with cpm inventory to sell.
CPA networks have found the one segment of affiliate marketing that doesn’t obey this rule — most CPA network super affiliates treat their inventory as if it were CPM and have little interest in crafting their own message, and they only choose offers that convert easily — they aren’t interested in pushing traffic to a retailer where the conversion can be sloppy because of price comparison, cart issues, etc. They get paid when someone fills out a form with their contact information, and that all but eliminates the complications of conversion that put the risk on the affiliate — again, blurring the lines between traditional CPM buys and CPA marketing in the one segment where that is possible.
OK, that’s all I have time for, but we can discuss this further any time you want. As I told Sam privately, I always respect your opinion, which is why it makes me so crazy when I think you’re really wrong and not acknowledging facts that seem fairly obvious to me (and others here). Sorry if it seemed like I was overreacting to your comments, I never intended any disrespect. I feel at this point that we’ve known each other long enough that I can be more forthcoming when I think you’re really wrong, that’s all. And I certainly didn’t mean any disrespect to Sam by saying the question wasn’t worthy of debate. I think he asked it because it had the potential for the response he’s gotten, but if you look at the answers above there was no one (except a rep from a CPA Network who doesn’t, with all due respect, examine the question with much depth) who thought as you did on this issue, and these are all people who have been in the industry since the beginning.
[…] 2. Along those lines, investigate CPA Networks (but don’t replace CJ or Linkshare with them if you’re a publisher or affiliate… more on that later). Call Azoogle, Hydra, AdDrive, Rextopia, CPAEmpire, RocketProfits or FiliNet and speak to a rep who handles your side of business depending on your status as a publisher, advertiser or affiliate. These networks have people dedicated to your particular side of the business. I know… I used to be one and loved it when potential advertisers or publishers called me up. 3. Call CJ, Linkshare and ShareASale and ask them what they can do for you. Talk to a human at the companies and don’t rely on word of mouth or industry reputation. […]
My nephew is Cuckoo for Chicken Little. That kid has seen that movie 100 times now.
There are essentially two ways for one business (or model) to threaten another: offer a significantly better version of the same products/services -or- offer different products/services that better fulfill the customers’ existing needs.
You can successfully defend that CPA networks offer the same products/services as the affiliate networks. What is much harder to do is argue that CPA networks offer SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER products/services.
Or, let’s say we accept the argument that CPA networks offer different products/services than affiliate networks. Are the CPA networks getting either the demand-side or the supply-side to stop or dramatically reduce resource investments in affiliate programs?
I haven’t heard enough testimonials or seen metrics that sway my opinion. All of the networks operating in the performance marketing space seem to share more similarities than differences. Even in the value offered to the marketplace. So, thus far, I don’t see either party posing a ‘threat’ to the other.
The good news might be in the fact that scores of new networks keep popping up–not simply to steal business from affiliate marketing–but to create another channel. Performance marketing continues to grow and the addition of this new channel might just represent a growing (rather than cannibalizing) market space.
You know me: seeing the glass as half full and trying to figure out how to fill it to the rim…
Anyway, Sam, I’ll do a counter podcast to Jeff/Ms. X, if your readers/listeners agree and are still interested. Who knows? Maybe I can get Mr. Nobody to be my guest?
Hi Lisa-
Thanks for joining the conversation.
I’d love for you to do a counter podcast. The readers and myself are definitely interested in hearing you flesh out some of the issues you raise in your comment (creations of new channels by new networks, etc).
I’ll post right away!
Sam
Sorry for bumping an old post, but I’m slightly confused by the difference in the two. As mentioned in a previous comment, I’m from the UK and we tend to do things a little differently (some things better, some worse I suspect).
Over here there are not two different kinds of network, there are no real “CPA” networks verses “Affiliate” networks. We have a bunch of good, hard working affiliate networks that work across multiple payment methods, be it a CPA or % base.
Is there really a huge difference between the two & have their always been these differences in networks across the pond?
Really interested in getting a further understand of it!
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[…] Along those lines, investigate CPA Networks (but don’t replace CJ or Linkshare with them if you’re a publisher or affiliate… […]
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